Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

02/16/2006 03:00 PM House HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES


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Audio Topic
03:09:32 PM Start
03:10:16 PM Overview (s): || "cost Effective Alternative to Criminalizing Those with a Mental Illness"
04:08:06 PM Lewin Group and Econorthwest "long Term Forecast of Medicaid Enrollment and Spending in Alaska: 2005-2025"
04:49:54 PM Citizens' Review Panel
05:05:52 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation by Dr. Tom Hamilton - "Cost- TELECONFERENCED
Effective Alternative to Criminalizing
Those with a Mental Illness"
+ Presentation by Lewin Group - "Long-Term TELECONFERENCED
Forecast of Medicaid Enrollment and
Spending in Alaska"
+ Presentation by State Citizen Review TELECONFERENCED
Panel
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
 HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                               
                       February 16, 2006                                                                                        
                           3:09 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Vice Chair                                                                                          
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative Sharon Cissna                                                                                                    
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Peggy Wilson, Chair                                                                                              
Representative Tom Anderson                                                                                                     
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW(S):                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. TOM HAMILTON - "COST-EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVE TO CRIMINALIZING                                                                 
THOSE WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS;"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEWIN GROUP - "LONG-TERM FORECAST OF MEDICAID ENROLLMENT AND                                                                    
SPENDING IN ALASKA;"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STATE CITIZEN REVIEW PANEL                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ALEXANDER VONHAFFTEN, M.D., President                                                                                           
Alaska Psychiatric Association                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Testified  that  although  the  community                                                               
mental health  system in Alaska  is fragmented and  broken, there                                                               
are opportunities to make it better.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TOM HAMILTON, PhD                                                                                                               
Medora Investments, LLC                                                                                                         
Houston, Texas                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Presented  a cost-effective  alternative to                                                               
criminalizing those with a mental illness.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SHIELDS                                                                                                                    
Lewin Group                                                                                                                     
Virginia                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:   During the  long-term forecast  of Medicaid                                                               
enrollment   and  spending   in  Alaska   presentation,  answered                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TED HELVOIGHT, Economist                                                                                                        
ECONorthwest                                                                                                                    
Eugene, Oregon                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Presented  the  long-term   forecast  of                                                               
Medicaid enrollment and spending in Alaska.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
FRED VAN WALLINGA, Chair                                                                                                        
Citizens' Review Panel                                                                                                          
Willow, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Presented  an  overview  of the  Citizens'                                                               
Review Panel.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN HEUER, Member                                                                                                             
Citizens' Review Panel                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Presented  an  overview  of the  Citizens'                                                               
Review Panel.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  PAUL SEATON  called the  House Health,  Education and                                                             
Social Services  Standing Committee  meeting to order  at 3:09:32                                                             
PM.  Representatives Gardner, Cissna,  and Seaton were present at                                                             
the  call to  order.   He noted  that Representatives  Wilson and                                                               
Gatto were excused.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW (S):                                                                                                                
^"Cost  Effective  Alternative  To  Criminalizing  Those  With  A                                                             
Mental Illness"                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR SEATON  announced that  the first  order of  business                                                               
would  be  an  overview  of the  cost  effective  alternative  to                                                               
criminalizing those with a mental illness.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:10:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALEXANDER   VONHAFFTEN,  M.D.,   President,  Alaska   Psychiatric                                                               
Association  (APA), informed  the committee  that he  began doing                                                               
clinical  work  in  Alaska  in  1990  as  a  Washington,  Alaska,                                                               
Montana,  Idaho Medical  Education Program  (WAMI) resident.   He                                                               
further informed the committee that  he has worked throughout the                                                               
state  in a  variety  of clinical  settings, including  community                                                               
mental health,  the Alaska Psychiatric Institute,  the Department                                                               
of  Corrections, the  Alaska Native  Medical  Center, et  cetera.                                                               
Dr. vonHafften then said that the  bad news is that the community                                                               
mental  health system  in Alaska  is fragmented  and broken.   He                                                               
pointed  out that  the  Alaska Department  of  Health and  Social                                                               
Services 2001  In-Step Report highlights  some of  the challenges                                                               
faced in Alaska.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. VONHAFFTEN opined that the  community mental health system is                                                               
largely designed  for failure in that  the least-desired outcomes                                                               
too often  become the  most likely outcomes.   For  instance, the                                                               
[community  mental health  system]  increases  the likelihood  of                                                               
disability and  pernicity and increases the  likelihood of arrest                                                               
and  incarceration.    The  system, he  pointed  out,  is  crisis                                                               
driven.   However,  he  opined that  the good  news  it that  the                                                               
system can be  made better and there are opportunities  to do so.                                                               
Dr.  vonHafften  then introduced  Dr.  Tom  Hamilton, who  has  a                                                               
doctorate in  engineering and has  had a distinguished  career in                                                               
the oil and  gas industry.  Dr. Hamilton, he  related, is present                                                               
to speak today because he has  a son with schizophrenia, and thus                                                               
since  1992  he  and  his wife  have  learned  about  psychiatric                                                               
illness and  the mental  health system.   The  aforementioned has                                                               
resulted  in   Dr.  Hamilton's   involvement  in   several  Texas                                                               
Department of  Mental Health and  Mental Retardation  task forces                                                               
regarding  resource allocation.    Currently, Dr.  Hamilton is  a                                                               
member  of the  board of  trustees for  the Harris  County Mental                                                               
Health and  Mental Retardation  Authority, which  has one  of the                                                               
largest catchment areas in the country.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TOM  HAMILTON,  PhD,  turned  the   committee's  attention  to  a                                                               
document  entitled,   "Redirecting  Resources:     Cost-Effective                                                               
Alternatives to Criminalizing  Those With A Mental  Illness."  He                                                               
began his  presentation with a  history of mental  illness, which                                                               
is as old as the human race  and its cause has been attributed to                                                               
everything  from  physical  to demonic,  to  biological  reasons.                                                               
Furthermore,  the  stigma  associated   with  mental  illness  is                                                               
centuries  old as  is the  tendency  to characterize  individuals                                                               
with a  mental illness as  inmates.   However, the truth  is that                                                               
mental  illnesses are  treatable  illnesses  with efficacy  rates                                                               
higher  than most  other  illnesses.   The  problem  is that  the                                                               
policies in  place are riddled  with unintended  consequences due                                                               
to lack of  understanding.  Dr. Hamilton pointed out  that one of                                                               
the results of those unintended  consequences is that individuals                                                               
with mental  illnesses are three  to fives  times overrepresented                                                               
in the criminal justice system.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:17:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON turned to  the term transinstitutionalization, which                                                               
was coined by  J. L. Penrose in 1939 [after  observing] that when                                                               
the number of beds in  mental hospitals in Europe increased there                                                               
was an  increase in the  number of  beds in the  criminal justice                                                               
system.    The  term  refers   to  moving  individuals  from  one                                                               
institution to another.  He  related information gathered in 1880                                                               
and  in  1955, which  were  the  height of  institutionalization.                                                               
Today one  finds that there  has been  a 10-fold decrease  in the                                                               
number  of individuals  in state  hospitals,  of which  one-third                                                               
have been remanded  by the court.  However, one  finds today that                                                               
0.3  percent  of the  U.S.  population  in the  criminal  justice                                                               
system is  thought to have  a mental  illness [which is  the same                                                               
proportion of  the U.S. population that  was institutionalized in                                                               
1955].     He  then  drew   attention  to  the   graph  entitled,                                                               
"Transinstitutionalization",  which  illustrates  the  height  of                                                               
institutionalization  in   1955  to   its  10-fold   decline  and                                                               
corresponding  increase in  incarceration in  2000.   He reminded                                                               
the   committee  of   the  following   key   events  during   the                                                               
aforementioned timeframe:   1973  Community Mental  Health Center                                                               
Act signed; the  drug culture in the 1960s  and 1970s; philosophy                                                               
change  from  rehabilitation to  punishment  in  the 1980s.    He                                                               
highlighted that in the mid  1990s state spending on the criminal                                                               
justice  system  was dominant  and  has  continued as  such  ever                                                               
since.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:21:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON explained  that the result of  the aforementioned is                                                               
that  prisons   have  become  the  state's   largest  psychiatric                                                               
institutions.  He  related that in 2000  the American Psychiatric                                                               
Association estimated  that 20 percent  of the  prison population                                                               
has  a  serious  mental  illness.     He  related  various  other                                                               
statistics  regarding  the  percentage  of  prisoners  that  have                                                               
mental  illnesses.   Juvenile  offenders  with serious  emotional                                                               
disturbances are  estimated in the  range of 40-75 percent.   Dr.                                                               
Hamilton  related  his  belief  that the  one  thing  upon  which                                                               
everyone can agree is that prisons are  not set up to nor do they                                                               
provide   a  therapeutic   environment   for  addressing   mental                                                               
illnesses.  The net result of the aforementioned is treatment-                                                                  
resistant individuals who recidivate.   He then related data from                                                               
a  2004 sampling  of a  Texas prison  and informed  the committee                                                               
that  25-50   percent  of  inmates  have   a  diagnosable  mental                                                               
disorder.   Although some  might suggest that  there are  so many                                                               
inmates  with  mental  disorders because  mental  illness  causes                                                               
people to behave  in a criminal manner, much data  refutes such a                                                               
notion.  Data specifies that  those who are treated appropriately                                                               
aren't  more likely  to commit  a crime  or be  violent than  the                                                               
general public.   However, lack of treatment of  those same group                                                               
of  individuals  increases the  likelihood  of  arrest, which  is                                                               
usually for a minor offense  at the outset.  Unfortunately, there                                                               
is  a  large  population  with  a  co-occurring  substance  abuse                                                               
disorder and  the lack of  treatment for this  group dramatically                                                               
increases the likelihood of arrest  and violence.  He pointed out                                                               
that  consumers  of  mental health  services  are  at  two-thirds                                                               
greater risk for being arrested  per encounter than nonconsumers.                                                               
Some officers  are trained  to recognize those  who might  have a                                                               
mental disorder and  to deal with such individuals.   With crisis                                                               
intervention  trained officers  and  community alternatives,  the                                                               
arrest rate drops to 1-2 percent,  which is about the same as the                                                               
general population.  "There's a  wealth of information out there,                                                               
which tells  us that  these individuals  are not  more criminally                                                               
inclined.  We  just normally lack alternatives to  deal with them                                                               
in the community," he said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:26:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  HAMILTON  addressed what  is  known  about this  population,                                                               
offenders  with  a mental  impairment  (OMI),  from general  data                                                               
across the  country.  In  answer, he  related that half  are non-                                                               
violent, misdemeanor offenders; three of four have a co-                                                                        
occurring  substance abuse  disorder;  and  they usually  receive                                                               
little or  no treatment in  prison.  With  regard to the  lack of                                                               
treatment received  in prison, Dr. Hamilton  noted that prisoners                                                               
are  guaranteed  by  the  U.S. Constitution  to  treatment.    He                                                               
continued by relating that  typically prisons lack rehabilitation                                                               
and  pre-release  planning,   which  results  in  a   lack  of  a                                                               
connection to treatment  and places a safety risk  in the public.                                                               
In  the general  public,  these individuals  are victimized  more                                                               
often than the general public.   Therefore, when such individuals                                                               
are  placed  in  an  environment  like a  prison,  they  spend  a                                                               
disproportionate amount of time  in administrative segregation or                                                               
solitary confinement.  The aforementioned  adds complexity to the                                                               
running of the prison, which in  turn adds cost.  Therefore, it's                                                               
more  expensive to  keep these  individuals in  prison and  these                                                               
individuals serve  longer sentences  for comparable  crimes under                                                               
comparable circumstances.   In fact, the  Pennsylvania Department                                                               
of Corrections  estimates that  an inmate  with a  serious mental                                                               
disorder costs  75 percent more  to maintain than  a non-mentally                                                               
ill  inmate.   He  then pointed  out that  in  addition to  those                                                               
costs,  there  are  significant additional  law  enforcement  and                                                               
judicial system costs that haven't been captured.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:31:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  HAMILTON then  provided the  committee with  jail data  from                                                               
Harris County  Texas, which includes  the Houston area and  has a                                                               
population  of about  5 million.   In  2004 information  from the                                                               
[Texas]  public  mental  health  system  and  the  Harris  County                                                               
Criminal Justice System  was merged and compared.   He noted that                                                               
there are fairly high barriers  to enter the public mental health                                                               
system in Texas, and therefore one  must be very ill to enter it.                                                               
He also  noted that this  data doesn't  include those who  have a                                                               
mental disorder  but have never  entered the system.   Therefore,                                                               
"the message here is the numbers  are going to be higher than one                                                               
in four," he  said.  Based on intake records,  there are 16 entry                                                               
points into  the public  mental health  system in  Harris County,                                                               
with the jail being the largest  as it provided 38 percent of the                                                               
first-time entrants.   Once those  who have a mental  illness are                                                               
incarcerated, they  serve twice the  number of jail  episodes per                                                               
defender.  Through the process  of incarceration and not treating                                                               
the mental  illness and  having subsequent  incarcerations, these                                                               
individuals are  criminalized and technically become  felons.  He                                                               
related  further statistics  regarding  how  inmates with  mental                                                               
illnesses have  more average jail  days per episode and  are more                                                               
likely to recidivate and have more post-release jail days.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:34:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER inquired as  to what are post-release jail                                                               
days.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON clarified that post-release  jail days refers to the                                                               
number  of  jail days  an  inmate  spends  in jail  after  he/she                                                               
recidivates.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:35:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA inquired as to  the morale of the employees                                                               
of the  prisons and  the inmates  without mental  illness because                                                               
she opined that [the lack of  treatment for inmates with a mental                                                               
illness] would  have a confounding  effect that would  drive many                                                               
other aspects of this equation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON agreed, adding that  some of the most frustrated are                                                               
the county  sheriffs, deputies, and  jailers, who  readily relate                                                               
that  they  weren't  set  up  to  address  [inmates  with  mental                                                               
illness].    The  situation is  demoralizing  and  unhealthy  for                                                               
everyone, he opined.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:36:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  inquired as  to  the  proportion of  the                                                               
mentally  ill  in  the  general population  who  never  have  any                                                               
contact with the criminal justice system.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON indicated that to be about 50 percent.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:37:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA related  her belief that if  issues such as                                                               
mental  illness   and  fetal   alcohol  spectrum   disorder  were                                                               
addressed early on, the prison population would be diminished.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON  agreed, and emphasized  that this cycle  will never                                                               
be  broken unless  a more  proactive course  that diverts  people                                                               
from  jail   and  treats  juveniles   and  those   with  [mental]                                                               
illnesses.    "These are  either  pay  me  now  or pay  me  later                                                               
illnesses; we're either  going to pay for it on  the front end or                                                               
we're  going to  pay a  lot more  for it  on the  back end,  with                                                               
enormous human  suffering on the  part of the  individuals, their                                                               
families, their communities, and everyone else," he opined.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:39:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON then asked  the committee to hold  any general                                                               
discussion  questions  until  the conclusion  of  Dr.  Hamilton's                                                               
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:39:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  HAMILTON then  turned to  the cost  and resource  allocation                                                               
issues associated with this.  He  related that an average stay in                                                               
the Harris County jail costs  more than intensive community care,                                                               
annually  it  amounts  to  approximately $38  million.    If  the                                                               
incarceration  rate matched  the  epidemiological  rate and  jail                                                               
days matched  regular offenders,  it would cost  approximately $5                                                               
million,  and therefore  he  suggested that  the  $30 million  in                                                               
savings  could  be  put  toward treatment  of  the  mentally  ill                                                               
population.  By diverting individuals  with a mental illness from                                                               
jail  or connecting  them with  community treatment,  there is  a                                                               
potential savings in Harris County of 40 percent per consumer.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:41:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON  addressed community  treatment and related  that in                                                               
Harris County  there is  a model  program entitled,  "New Start."                                                               
The  program, which  has  been  in existence  for  12 years,  was                                                               
originally designed to  pick up people at the gate  of the prison                                                               
and  connect  them  with  appropriate services.    In  2004  this                                                               
program  served  600  serious   offenders,  including  those  who                                                               
committed murder.   In 2004  the recidivism rate of  this program                                                               
was  5  percent,  much  of   which  he  attributed  to  technical                                                               
violations such as  not making a meeting with  the parole officer                                                               
or the  community treatment team.   However, the  recidivism rate                                                               
over the 12 years of the program  is about 1 percent, which is in                                                               
stark contrast  to the 60-70  percent recidivism rate  when folks                                                               
with   mental    illnesses   aren't   connected    to   services.                                                               
Furthermore, long-term studies show  that "the graduates" of this                                                               
program don't  re-offend at  rates any  higher [than  the general                                                               
population].    This program,  he  opined,  protects the  general                                                               
public from  a safety point of  view, which is a  strong argument                                                               
for  treatment.   Dr. Hamilton  informed the  committee that  the                                                               
average  cost  per  individual  in  the  New  Start  Program  was                                                               
$14,400, which is about $10,000  less than keeping the individual                                                               
in jail.   In  fact, if everyone  above the  epidemiological rate                                                               
had  been diverted,  it would  amount  to a  $9 million  savings.                                                               
However, he stressed that it would  take much time to establish a                                                               
program to  take care of that  many individuals.  The  program is                                                               
being  expanded at  this  point  to accept  those  who have  been                                                               
diverted  from  the  criminal  justice  system.  In  response  to                                                               
Representative Gardner,  Dr. Hamilton confirmed that  the program                                                               
only takes people who are  in the criminal justice system, either                                                               
entering or exiting.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:45:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON  then turned to  the matter of determining  the cost                                                               
data  for incarceration  versus  treatment,  which is  difficult.                                                               
However, there  have been studies  by Substance Abuse  and Mental                                                               
Health  Services Administrator  (SAMHSA)  a federal  organization                                                               
that reviewed  the nine diversion  programs in the nation.   Four                                                               
of those studies attempted to  answer whether it's cost effective                                                               
to divert as opposed to incarcerate.   From those studies, it was                                                               
learned that  diversion does reduce jail  time without increasing                                                               
the  public  safety  risk.    The  studies  also  concluded  that                                                               
connection  to  services  decreases recidivism.    However,  with                                                               
regard to  the next cost,  two studies determined  that diversion                                                               
costs more  and two studies  determined that  it cost less.   The                                                               
question  one has  to  ask is  to what  is  the individual  being                                                               
diverted  because the  quality of  community  programs is  highly                                                               
variable.  Furthermore, unless the  community programs are set up                                                               
to receive these individuals, they  will be costly programs.  The                                                               
reason,  he opined,  two  of  the programs  cost  more to  divert                                                               
rather  than incarcerate  is because  the only  community program                                                               
was emergency services.  Moreover,  these studies lasted one year                                                               
or less and  the most costly year of diversion  is the first year                                                               
due  to the  individual's need  for much  intensive treatment  to                                                               
stabilize him/her, which typically requires  about 18 months.  He                                                               
opined  that  most  communities  aren't  ready  for  large  scale                                                               
diversion.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:48:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON  then made  the following  hypothetical assumptions:                                                               
the cost  of the criminal  justice system would cost  $20,000 per                                                               
year and that it would cost  $20,000 per year to divert people to                                                               
mental  health  services.    Following  the  model  results  that                                                               
specify that after  18 months there is a decline  in the services                                                               
required to keep  these individuals stable in  the community, the                                                               
cost  per year  would decline  to $12,000  per year.   Therefore,                                                               
after  18 months  diversion should  produce economical  benefits.                                                               
In  response to  Representative Gardner,  Dr. Hamilton  clarified                                                               
that  the  treatment  programs   in  the  hypothetical  would  be                                                               
residential such as the New  Start program.  He further clarified                                                               
that  the  first  year  of  a  diversion  program  would  be  the                                                               
intensive  treatment,  but  as individuals  are  stabilized  they                                                               
become out-patients.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:50:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER  asked if  these individuals,  once stable                                                               
and with  decreased mental health services,  are utilizing public                                                               
assistance.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR.  HAMILTON answered  that such  individuals are  likely to  be                                                               
utilizing  public  assistance.   However,  he  indicated that  it                                                               
depends  upon  whether  vocational  rehabilitation  services  and                                                               
psychosocial  services can  be provided.    Still, he  maintained                                                               
that  it's  very  unlikely  that   a  large  percentage  of  this                                                               
population will return  to [the workforce].   In further response                                                               
to Representative  Gardner, Dr. Hamilton agreed  that the benefit                                                               
is in  the recidivism rate  because far  more could be  spent up-                                                               
front than  the figures  show.   He did point  out that  the same                                                               
could be said  of prison costs.  Dr. Hamilton  then continued his                                                               
presentation and  informed the  committee that  if evidence-based                                                               
practices  are used,  those individuals  receiving such  services                                                               
qualify  for  Medicaid.    The  aforementioned  results  in  cost                                                               
shifting/saving  such   that  the  state's   burden  dramatically                                                               
decreases.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:52:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA related  her belief  that the  opportunity                                                               
cost is not included nor is  the part-time job that an individual                                                               
who  has  received treatment  can  do.   Furthermore,  the  costs                                                               
associated with  the extended  family in  regard to  travel isn't                                                               
included.   There are,  she opined,  large costs  associated with                                                               
being  institutionalized.    She  mentioned that  some  of  these                                                               
individuals  with mental  illnesses  may even  be  parents.   She                                                               
questioned   whether  any   data   has  been   gathered  on   the                                                               
aforementioned.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON responded that he  has seen some attempts to capture                                                               
those issues, although he said that  he hasn't seen any data that                                                               
has  been able  to  encapsulate all  the issues.    He noted  his                                                               
agreement with Representative Cissna  that there are huge burdens                                                               
that aren't  included in related  data.  In fact,  he highlighted                                                               
the  burden  placed   on  society  in  regard   to  the  homeless                                                               
population.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:54:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON  then continued his  presentation by  discussing how                                                               
the system was changed in Texas.   He related that in 2001 he was                                                               
involved  with examining  the cost  of  warehousing persons  with                                                               
mental  illnesses and  created a  macro economic  model.   During                                                               
fiscal year 2002-2003,  the Texas Legislature didn't  build a new                                                               
prison  but  rather redirected  $35  million  from punishment  to                                                               
treatment.   During the 2004-2005  legislative session  in Texas,                                                               
the Texas  Legislature renewed the  $35 million to  treatment and                                                               
legislated a  dramatic change  in the  delivery of  mental health                                                               
care  in  the  state  such  that the  state  went  to  a  disease                                                               
management  jail  diversion  model,  which  is  a  recovery-based                                                               
model.  The aforementioned model,  which combines substance abuse                                                               
money  into  the  behavioral  health  model,  was  introduced  in                                                               
September  2004.     Furthermore,   this  model   required  every                                                               
community center to have a jail diversion plan.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:56:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON reviewed  the 1997 one-day snapshot  from the Alaska                                                               
Department of  Corrections (DOC),  which relates that  29 percent                                                               
of the DOC  population exhibits mental illness.   That percentage                                                               
and  the fact  that most  suffer a  co-occurring substance  abuse                                                               
disorder   is  consistent   with  national   data.     While  the                                                               
[percentage of the DOC population  exhibiting mental illness] was                                                               
increasing, the number  being treated was much lower.   In fiscal                                                               
year 2000, DOC  served 2,556 individuals who  were suffering from                                                               
various conditions at the time of  arrest.  He said that the data                                                               
is a subtle way to indicate  that Alaska has the same problems as                                                               
elsewhere.   Dr.  Hamilton  related that  the  basic elements  to                                                               
address  this  problem,  although   they  may  be  inadequate  or                                                               
insufficient,  exist  in  Alaska  the  same  as  elsewhere.    He                                                               
acknowledged  that in  Alaska correction  officers are  receiving                                                               
some  training and  that  there is  a  functioning mental  health                                                               
court, a jail alternative services  program, and an institutional                                                               
discharge  program.    However,  he   opined  that  many  of  the                                                               
aforementioned programs are based on federal funds.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:59:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR.  HAMILTON concluded  by reminding  the committee  that mental                                                               
illnesses  are  real  illnesses  that  are  treatable.    Without                                                               
treatment  those  suffering from  mental  illness  are much  more                                                               
prone to  violence and arrest  than the general public,  but with                                                               
treatment these  individuals are no  more prone to such  than the                                                               
general public.   Dr.  Hamilton opined that  at worst,  it's cost                                                               
neutral  to  treat  those  with   mental  illnesses  rather  than                                                               
incarcerate them.   Furthermore,  treatment of  these individuals                                                               
is more likely to result in a cost saving over the long term.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:00:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. HAMILTON, in response to  Representative Cissna, related that                                                               
in  the Texas  criminal justice  system there  is an  agency that                                                               
addresses offenders  with mental impairments and  helps to ensure                                                               
they  receive treatment.    However, since  not  everyone with  a                                                               
mental  illness   is  identified,   Texas  was   originally  only                                                               
addressing 14 percent or so.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:02:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 4:02 p.m. to 4:06 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^Lewin  Group and  ECONorthwest "Long  Term Forecast  of Medicaid                                                             
Enrollment and Spending in Alaska:  2005-2025"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR SEATON  announced  that the  next  order of  business                                                               
would be  a presentation by  the Lewin Group regarding  the long-                                                               
term forecast of Medicaid enrollment and spending in Alaska.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:08:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SHIELDS, Lewin Group, began  by informing the committee that                                                               
the  Lewin Group  consists of  specialists  in developing  health                                                               
care models.  The model presented  today is based on designs that                                                               
have been successfully  used in other states.  He  noted that the                                                               
Lewin Group is committed to nonpartisan research.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TED HELVOIGHT,  Economist, ECONorthwest,  began by  reminding the                                                               
committee  that  in March  2005,  the  Department of  Health  and                                                               
Social  Services  (DHSS)  contracted  with the  Lewin  Group  and                                                               
ECONorthwest to develop  a model that would  allow the department                                                               
to  project future  Medicaid spending  and  update its  long-term                                                               
spending  projections.   Mr. Helvoight  noted that  the model  is                                                               
entirely  data driven  and thus  is based  on historical  claims-                                                               
based  data in  Medicaid from  Alaska.   The model  also has  the                                                               
capability  of reviewing  scenarios that  may occur,  even if  no                                                               
historical data  exists for those  scenarios.   Additionally, the                                                               
companies, upon  request, created a report  describing a baseline                                                               
forecast for  Alaska while  documenting the  methodology followed                                                               
and the  data used  in the model.   Therefore,  this presentation                                                               
highlights some of the points of the report.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HELVOIGHT  reviewed the  steps utilized  to build  the model,                                                               
with  the  first  being   Alaska's  population  because  Medicaid                                                               
spending  in  the   future  relates  to  the   population.    The                                                               
population  projections are  based  on the  Alaska Department  of                                                               
Labor & Workforce Development (DLWD)  projections that are at the                                                               
state level and review population growth  by gender and age.  For                                                               
this analysis, the population growth  was reviewed per region and                                                               
Native and non-Native  status.  The Native  and non-Native status                                                               
is  important  due to  the  Federal  Matching Assistance  Program                                                               
(FMAP).      All   of  the   aforementioned   resulted   in   220                                                               
subpopulations that were reviewed for  the forecasting.  Once the                                                               
population forecast is established,  the next step is determining                                                               
Medicaid  enrollment,  which  differs  quite a  bit  by  age  and                                                               
gender.  The next step is  to review the utilization of services.                                                               
To continue, one  must next review the total  spending on claims,                                                               
the amount of state funds  spent; and other payments and offsets.                                                               
Mr. Helvoight emphasized  that the committee should  keep in mind                                                               
that  the  legislature/state  is  in control  of  the  following:                                                               
eligibility  requirements,  reimbursement   rates,  and  services                                                               
provided.    However,  there  are  factors,  such  as  population                                                               
growth, demographic changes, and changes in medical technology.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:18:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HELVOIGHT then  highlighted  that the  baseline analysis  is                                                               
based on  the assumption that  the status  quo as of  fiscal year                                                               
2004 will remain for the next  20 years because the data supports                                                               
that.    Therefore,  the  baseline  analysis  doesn't  anticipate                                                               
policy  changes  such as  the  following  made in  2005-06:  cost                                                               
containment;  Bring  the  Kids  Home  initiative;  personal  care                                                               
attendant regulation  changes; or  Medicare Part D  drug benefit.                                                               
However,  it's clear  that all  four of  the aforementioned  will                                                               
have an impact on spending over  time, which DHSS will be able to                                                               
review for each initiative.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:20:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HELVOIGHT moved  on to  the  population, which  will be  the                                                               
largest  driver  throughout  this  analysis.    He  informed  the                                                               
committee that  the 65 and  older population,  currently totaling                                                               
43,000, is projected to triple  to 124,000 between 2005 and 2025.                                                               
Furthermore,  between 2005  and  2010 the  state's population  is                                                               
estimated to slow from about 1  percent per year to .6 percent in                                                               
2025.   Most  of the  growth will  occur in  the Anchorage/Mat-Su                                                               
region   while  Southeast   Alaska  will   experience  a   slight                                                               
population decrease  over the  next 20  years.   Furthermore, Mr.                                                               
Helvoight  projected   that  the  Native  population   will  grow                                                               
significantly  faster than  the  non-Native  population. He  then                                                               
turned attention to  the Alaska Population growth  graph on slide                                                               
14, which  breaks out the population  growth by age.   This graph                                                               
indicates that there will be  significant growth primarily in the                                                               
elderly population.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:22:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HELVOIGHT  continued  with Medicaid  enrollment,  which  the                                                               
analysis projects  will grow faster  than the  state's population                                                               
as  a whole  such that  Medicaid enrollment  in Alaska  will grow                                                               
from 132,000  in 2005  to 175,000 by  2025.   Medicaid enrollment                                                               
will grow much  faster for the elderly than for  the entire state                                                               
population.  The elderly enrollment  will grow from approximately                                                               
10,000 in 2005 to 33,000 by  2025.  Similarly, the graph on slide                                                               
18  indicates  that  there  will   also  be  growth  in  Medicaid                                                               
enrollment for the children and working age groups.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:25:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HELVOIGHT  addressed the utilization of  services, which will                                                               
determine  how  many services  each  of  the 220  sub-populations                                                               
enrolled  in Medicaid  will  use.   He  clarified  that for  this                                                               
analysis Medicaid  utilization is  the annual  unduplicated count                                                               
of  Medicaid enrollees  who used  a  particular Medicaid  service                                                               
during  a particular  year.   The department  aggregated Medicaid                                                               
services into 20  service categories and the  growth projected in                                                               
utilization  will differ  greatly among  the service  categories.                                                               
He  reminded  the  committee  that   the  personal  care  service                                                               
category doesn't include  any changes made to  that category, and                                                               
therefore  the  hope  is  that the  9.7  percent  projected  will                                                               
actually be  less.  Still, it  will be a category  that will grow                                                               
fast.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:27:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA recalled  from the  House Finance  Health,                                                               
Education,  and Social  Services subcommittee  that the  personal                                                               
care attendant service is much  less expensive than growth in the                                                               
residential nursing  home.  Therefore,  she questioned  whether a                                                               
decrease  in the  personal care  service would  actually be  less                                                               
costly because  it could mean  that a more  expensive alternative                                                               
is being utilized.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HELVOIGHT  agreed that it's not  a good thing if  it's a case                                                               
in which personal care regulation  changes push people to nursing                                                               
homes.  However, if it's a  case in which some might consider the                                                               
inappropriate   use  of   personal  care,   then  it's   probably                                                               
appropriate.  He  specified that if the things  aren't related to                                                               
nursing home care, then it's a good change.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:29:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HELVOIGHT  continued with regard  to utilization  of services                                                               
and directed attention  to slide 21, which specifies 6  of the 20                                                               
service  categories.   Each category  is projected  to grow  at a                                                               
different rate, which is based  largely on historic growth rates.                                                               
For  all  Medicaid  utilization  as  a  whole,  the  Centers  for                                                               
Medicare  and  Medicaid  Services'  (CMS)  national  forecast  of                                                               
growth  is  utilized to  guide  the  overall  growth of  such  in                                                               
Alaska.  He related that CMS  projects future growth of about 2.2                                                               
percent  in utilization  growth.   The aforementioned,  he noted,                                                               
was  a required  assumption when  doing such  analysis.   He then                                                               
mentioned that  slower relative growth  in nursing  home services                                                               
is  partially  offsetting  the  very  high  projected  growth  in                                                               
personal  care  and  Medicaid  home-  and  community-based  (HCB)                                                               
waiver categories.  He further  mentioned that in addition to the                                                               
220 subpopulations projected through  time, the analysis projects                                                               
20 different  service categories through time.   Therefore, there                                                               
is  a  certain  complexity  with regard  to  the  utilization  of                                                               
services and the spending on services.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:31:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HELVOIGHT  turned to total  spending and highlighted  that of                                                               
primary importance are the findings  related to the direction and                                                               
approximate magnitude  of changes  in spending  on Medicaid.   In                                                               
2005  calendar  year total  spending  by  the state  and  federal                                                               
governments  on Medicaid  claims in  Alaska was  approximately $1                                                               
billion.   By  calendar  year 2025,  total spending by  the state                                                               
and federal governments on Medicaid  claims in Alaska is expected                                                               
to increase to  about $4.8 billion in actual dollars  or to about                                                               
$2.2  billion  in inflation  adjusted  dollars.   The  difference                                                               
between the two growth rates  is medical specific.  Mr. Helvoight                                                               
related that in  2005 inpatient hospital services  is the largest                                                               
Medicaid service  category and is  responsible for 15  percent of                                                               
total  spending  on Medicaid  plans  while  the HCB  waivers  and                                                               
personal care constitute approximately  11 percent and 10 percent                                                               
of spending, respectively.   However, the projection  for 2025 is                                                               
that inpatient hospital services will  only account for 5 percent                                                               
of  the total  Medicaid service  spending while  HCB waivers  and                                                               
personal  care will  grow to  about  22 percent  and 27  percent,                                                               
respectively.  Therefore,  half of all spending in  2025 would be                                                               
in the aforementioned two categories,  which he attributed to the                                                               
demographics.  Mr. Helvoight then  drew the committee's attention                                                               
to two graphs  on slides 29 and 30, both  of which illustrate the                                                               
proportion of  spending by  each of  the three  age cohorts.   In                                                               
2005, about 44  percent of all Medicaid spending  is for children                                                               
with about  22 percent  for the  elderly.   However, by  2015 the                                                               
spending for  the elderly  will surpass  spending on  working age                                                               
adults  and  by  2018  it  will  surpass  spending  on  children.                                                               
Therefore, the program will be very different than it is today.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:35:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA recalled  being told by AARP  that in other                                                               
states when it comes time  for nursing home care, those residents                                                               
without a  family base in the  area return to the  state in which                                                               
there is  a family base.   However,  she surmised that  in Alaska                                                               
the growth  is too  recent to determine  what will  happen, which                                                               
could substantially change the projections.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIELDS agreed  that such could change the  projections.  The                                                               
influx of individuals in and out  of Alaska is a serious issue in                                                               
terms of  its impact on  the estimates.   To the extent  the aged                                                               
are  leaving  Alaska  today,  the  assumption  is  that  it  will                                                               
continue at the same rate in  the future.  However, there will be                                                               
so many more aged people that  it will seem to mushroom and could                                                               
have a  dramatic impact.   Mr. Shields  noted that  Mr. Helvoight                                                               
will  present a  slide that  addresses  what will  happen if  the                                                               
demographics are  very different than projected  today.  Although                                                               
the  number  is  very  different,  it  remains  larger  than  the                                                               
spending for  children and  adults.   The aforementioned  is what                                                               
Mr. Shields referred to as a  "robust result" that is very likely                                                               
to occur.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:41:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HELVOIGHT explained  that  the models  built  for DHSS  will                                                               
allow it  to conduct long-term forecasts  of different scenarios.                                                               
For example,  the department could  forecast the effect  on total                                                               
spending  if   the  elderly  population  grows   slower  than  is                                                               
forecasted by  the DLWD and  the department could  also determine                                                               
the  effect  on spending  if  utilization  grows slower  than  is                                                               
projected in  the models.   He presented graphs  illustrating the                                                               
aforementioned  possible  effects  on  slides 33  and  35.    Mr.                                                               
Helvoight  related that  CMS  projects  that nationally  Medicaid                                                               
spending will  grow by 7.5 percent  per year through 2014.   This                                                               
analysis  projects  that over  the  same  period, total  Medicaid                                                               
spending in Alaska will increase  by 7.7 percent.  However, state                                                               
spending  will  be  different.    In  calendar  year  2005  state                                                               
matching  fund spending  on Medicaid  services was  approximately                                                               
$380  million, but  by calendar  year 2025  it's actual  spending                                                               
will grow to  approximately $2.1 billion.   The aforementioned is                                                               
an  8.9  percent  growth  rate  over the  next  20  years,  which                                                               
illustrates that the  growth in spending will  clearly be greater                                                               
for the  state than the  federal government.   In fact,  over the                                                               
next  five years  is when  much of  this change  will occur.   He                                                               
projected  that between  2005-2010, the  state will  increase its                                                               
spending by  10.5 percent per  year while the  federal government                                                               
will  only  increase  its  spending  by  6.3  percent,  which  he                                                               
attributed to the  federal matching rate that is  projected to be                                                               
at  the  minimum  by  2008.   Mr.  Helvoight  then  informed  the                                                               
committee that on a per capita  basis every man, woman, and child                                                               
of Alaska  is paying about $500  for Medicaid services.   By 2025                                                               
that will increase in actual terms  to just over $2,500, which is                                                               
a must faster growth than will  occur with real per capita income                                                               
over that same time period.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:46:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HELVOIGHT  concluded  by  addressing  the  topic  of  "Going                                                               
Forward."   He  related the  following quote  from Janet  Clarke,                                                               
Assistant Commissioner,  DHSS, "The Alaska Medicaid  program will                                                               
fundamentally change over  the next 20 years from  a program that                                                               
centers  on  children  to  one that  is  dominated  by  seniors."                                                               
Therefore, in the  future Medicaid will look  more like Medicare.                                                               
He then  emphasized the  importance of  recognizing that  in 2025                                                               
almost half  of the  spending will be  for the  elderly, although                                                               
the elderly will only account  for 33,000 out of 175,000 Medicaid                                                               
enrollees.   The legislature,  to some  extent, has  control over                                                               
the  following:   eligibility requirements;  reimbursement rates;                                                               
and services provided.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:48:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON  asked if the shift  from Medicaid prescription                                                               
phase to Medicare prescription phase was included.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HELVOIGHT replied  no, but  stated  that it  should have  an                                                               
impact.  He confirmed that this could be included in the model.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIELDS explained that the  claw back provision in which what                                                               
is saved  in the state  Medicaid program  will be paid  back into                                                               
the program  to some degree.   Therefore, the savings won't  be a                                                               
windfall but  rather will be  used to  help pay for  the program.                                                               
"It's complicated, but  it's not clear whether you  break even or                                                               
spend more or spend less," he said.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
^Citizens' Review Panel                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:49:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR SEATON  announced that  the final  order of  business                                                               
would be the overview by the Citizens' Review Panel (CRP).                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:50:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRED VAN WALLINGA, Chair, Citizens'  Review Panel, introduced the                                                               
members of  the panel  present.  He  informed the  committee that                                                               
this panel  was established by  the federal government  and works                                                               
with the Office of Children's  Services (OCS) to improve services                                                               
to the citizens of Alaska.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN HEUER,  Member, Citizens' Review  Panel, related  that this                                                               
group  has been  working  together for  two years.    The CRP  is                                                               
federally mandated to review the  policies and procedures of OCS.                                                               
Over the past two years, CRP  has conducted four town meetings in                                                               
Anchorage, Wasilla, Juneau,  and Bethel.  She noted  that CRP has                                                               
had training with  regard to performing an audit  of OCS records.                                                               
Based on the  public testimony, the most concerns  arose from the                                                               
town  meeting in  Wasilla, which  prompted a  site review  in the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna area.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:54:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HEUER explained that two weeks  ago, four CRP members went to                                                               
the   Matanuska-Susitna  area   to  interview   eight  collateral                                                               
agencies  that  deal  with  OCS  as well  as  OCS  itself.    The                                                               
interviews  reviewed how  the agencies  worked  together and  how                                                               
they  view  child  protection  in   the  community.    For  those                                                               
meetings, a list  of positives and negatives will  be shared with                                                               
the  community,  the  legislature, and  the  federal  government.                                                               
Furthermore, some  short-term recommendations have  been provided                                                               
to OCS  to be implemented  by the end of  this fiscal year.   The                                                               
short-term  goal for  CRP is  to  help implement  changes in  the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna  office such  that  the  public's concerns  are                                                               
addressed and more  children are being protected.   The long-term                                                               
goals  of  CRP are  to  continue  community meetings  around  the                                                               
state.   The goal, she  opined, is for  there to be  an increased                                                               
adherence  to  policies  and  procedures   by  OCS  and  stronger                                                               
collaboration among agencies working with  OCS.  The goal is also                                                               
to increase  the level of  protection of children in  Alaska such                                                               
that incidences of child abuse and neglect will decrease.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:55:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HEUER expressed concern that  as CRP is becoming more public,                                                               
more individuals are contacting CRP  with concerns.  The panel is                                                               
a volunteer  group that has no  means to meet that  level of time                                                               
and concern.   Therefore, CRP would  like to refer people  to the                                                               
grievance  procedures   already  established   by  OCS   and  the                                                               
Ombudsman's Office.  However, at  some point CRP will address how                                                               
to  track  those grievances  and  review  the outcome  after  the                                                               
grievance  process.   Ms.  Heuer related  that  more members  are                                                               
needed throughout Alaska in order to  have as balanced a board as                                                               
possible.     However,  travel  expenses   make  [a   board  with                                                               
representation throughout the state]  cost prohibitive.  "We have                                                               
touched the  tip of  the iceberg,  functionally, with  this," she                                                               
opined.    She further  opined  that  CRP  hopes to  establish  a                                                               
positive relationship with OCS.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:57:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON commented  that as  legislators can  relate to                                                               
colleagues that  questions can  be properly  directed to  OCS and                                                               
the  Ombudsman's  Office.    Recalled  presentations  from  other                                                               
departments and  agencies, and  recalled frustration  with regard                                                               
to the  time it takes for  data input into reports  as it reduces                                                               
the  amount  of service  the  agencies  can provide  to  clients.                                                               
Therefore,  he suggested  checking  with those  in  the field  to                                                               
determine  whether there  are  reporting  provisions that  aren't                                                               
working and inhibiting service.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:00:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  expressed  concern   that  there  may  be                                                               
individuals  who want  to relate  concerns to  CRP because  there                                                               
could be  a conflict  of interest  when OCS  is the  responder to                                                               
questions of OCS's service.   Furthermore, the Ombudsman's Office                                                               
is very understaffed.  Therefore,  she asked whether anything has                                                               
been worked out with the Ombudsman's Office.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN WALLINGA  explained that most often the  calls come after                                                               
going through  the process  with OCS.   The  first thing  that he                                                               
said he  relates is  that CRP can't  handle individual  cases and                                                               
they are directed  to the Ombudsman's Office.   However, going to                                                               
the Ombudsman's Office  is like going to OCS to  those making the                                                               
complaint.  In most  of the cases CRP receives, it  seems to be a                                                               
lack of communication at some point.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:03:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  SEATON related his  understanding that  the directive                                                               
of CRP is to determine where the system is not working.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. VAN WALLINGA agreed that is  what CRP will be doing, although                                                               
he clarified that  CRP won't do much with  the Ombudsman's Office                                                               
because it isn't in CRP's area.   He mentioned that he understood                                                               
the difficulties  with the new  system, Online Resources  for the                                                               
Children of Alaska (ORCA).                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:05:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  related her  understanding that  since the                                                               
legislature  [this  committee]  has   oversight  over  OCS,  it's                                                               
reasonable to speak with the Ombudsman's Office regarding ways                                                                  
to help with this.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR SEATON noted that the Ombudsman's Office is under the                                                                
purview of the legislature as well.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:05:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting                                                                
was adjourned at 5:05:52 PM.                                                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects